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PvP Logging and Client Abuse

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Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Granmethedon III on 07/12/2007 19:26:42 Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: yosef kaldhu isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information???? The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local. screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...) idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to.. if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't.. (or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.) You are aware that one of the main fundamentals behind the game is non-consensual pvp? Right? I've been saying since I started playing that the emergency warps were one of the worst things in the game. You get dc'd and die, there's the petition system for that, and the log files will demonstrate whether it was an active log off or not. You wanna log off when not in station, then you leave your ship parked for people to probe and destroy if so being. If I had my way there wouldn't be a timer, the ship would just sit where they logged til they logged back in.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:24:00 - [2] Originally by: Woolygimp I swear, sometimes these MMO's pick up the bottom of the barrel. I'm talking about completely stupid human beings that need to remove themselves from the gene pool. Yup and they always seem to be the ones loudest on the forums...
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:29:00 - [3] Originally by: Buyerr ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!? well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to. I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:40:00 - [4] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Buyerr ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!? well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to. I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart. I am down with that 100%. Yes, I will have to time my ops more carefully so I will be somewhere safe when I have to log out, and yes, there would be times I would have to log out in a safe spot and hope I was there when I got back online because an emergency came up, but you know what? I would be happy to do so knowing how much the game had been improved for this. Yup, that's my feelings. I can probably see reasons for there being some form of timer before the ship disappears to reduce lag and server stress, but I see no reason why it's not quite a long one; and I wouldn't mind at all if it were permanent.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:44:00 - [5] Edited by: Granmethedon III on 07/12/2007 19:44:54 Originally by: Oam Mkoll Originally by: Woolygimp You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap. Bull****! Here's a newsflash for you: quite a lot of people have lives besides EVE. If something happens, hell, even if my cellphone rings, I have every right to just log off. Of course I shouldn't be able to do it during the fight but why the hell should I care if some red losers are in local? What if they jump in the very second I log? Why should I have to go to a station, even in 0.0 to log? And you know what? This would actually hurt carebears less as they would be the ones able to hug POS or dock in their own territory. Any roaming gang behind enemy lines would be screwed as soon as it logs off. Another piece of nolife ideas. No, just no. My argument is that if your cellphone is more important than your ship in eve, then you're not too fussed about losing that ship, right? The whole POINT in my opinion is that the enemy gang SHOULD be screwed if they log off behind enemy lines.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Janu Hull You realize that EVE's log off/disappear timer is pretty extraordinary? In most games, even those with PvP, the average timer I've seen is about a minute, at the outside. Hell, even a rough game with a brutal real world money loss like Entropia Universe is only a minute or so, and that game's so hardcore, its fanbois look at subscription gamers like little schoolgirls with skinned knees. The players here need to get a grip. In terms of log off exposure, they've got gifted status among gamers. And remember, logging off when players enter the system is not logging off in the face of PvP. If you're engaged in combat, there's a timer in place that lets people who abuse disconnects be punished for it. You're asking for the right to jump into a system at random, look down a list of names in the local channel and say, "I'm here to hunt you down. I don't know where you are right now, but you can't log off until I find you and have a chance to shoot you." That's ridiculous, if you stop and think about it. What do other games have to do with what I'd like for Eve? If I was playing them, maybe I'd moan about them? However, to me, it simply doesn't fit with everything else in the game.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:54:00 - [7] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Buyerr ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!? well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to. I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart. I'm going to shock you a bit and say I'd have no problem with this, either. Its already in the game for motherships and titans. And while it would be a pain in my butt to deal with at the battleship level, I can already work out in my mind how I'd cope with it. Reading your first post, yeah that's a shock. Personally, I think it'd be an awesome change to the game, and add a hell of a lot. You park up your moma/titan in a system and it becomes your corp/alliances responsibilty to defend it whilst you're not there.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Janu Hull It would add some depth, that's for certain. Adding a new dimension to the value of maintaining sovreign control of star systems. If that made logging off to escape impossible, so be it. To be honest, I've never done it. I've got enough guest appearances on various killboards to back that up. I'll fight or sneak my way out of a corner, and if I lose, I lose, and I limp back to empire to rebuild (at least I did before I joined DMC). Doom on me for never training cloaks. Yup, I've never logged off to avoid dying. I've been dc'd in a fight, and usually die anyway cause I fly paper thin ships. As you say, I think it'd add a new and very intriguing dimension to the game, and really reinforce the ownership, and vulnerability of that ownership, of space.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon The log off timer is to long as it is. When loggin after participating in combat your ship stays in space for long eonugh to be killed. This only hurts pvpers and noone can log in have 10 mins of hunting then log off and go do something else. The other reason why its messed up is because of the connection loss problems. I am sure pvpers would like the titans to die in a fight rather than to connection loss. But now they are invulnerable to warpscrambling and due to their hp they are invulnerable to death by other players. However they are really vulnerable to connection issues... Even when you havent participated in pvp the timer is to long. When an enemy fleet jumps their capital ships into system they will start loosing connections and half their fleet will be warping in all directions.. then its can easely be abused by the enemy fleet to scan down the targets and warp to them and kill them at their random spot. I`ve seen this happen... no.. just no.. as the buuyer dude said. The only sensible way to solve it is to have the ship stay in space as long as a warpscrambler is active on it... I suspect this isnt possible because of programming issues since CCP arent using it. But there's already another system in place for dealing with loss of ship from client drops - the petition.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:53:00 - [10] Edited by: Granmethedon III on 07/12/2007 20:55:13 Edited by: Granmethedon III on 07/12/2007 20:53:34 Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 07/12/2007 20:36:58 So I can go gank something logg off at a safe and if someone kills me then I just petition and get my ship back? First of all CCP dont reimburse ships like that becasue there is no way to detect if its a real connection loss or if its the player that just pulled the plug... Secound it would create a horrifying amount of petitions for CCP to handle + it would require a gm to activly go through logs every time to check how n when and where... No it doesnt work like that... This allso brings up an issue that is exploitable. You can logg off your chr while the enemy is shooting at you and if your fast eonugh you log in an other chr on the same account and the ship will dissappear. I dont know if this issue have been solved yet but I`ve been shooting at ppl who simpy dissapear before they die and I probably dont have to tell you how annoying that is. (if it havent been fixed) Another issue is that the dictor bubbles dont initiate the agression timer so anyone caught in one on jumpin can just logg off with no timer and the people with the bubble cant kill anything. (if it havent been fixed) I suspect your not into pvp at all. I suspect your actually only into blob warfare and never ever engage if you dont have 10 to 1 numbers. Because your out to severly damage guerillia warfare. If its all about numbers and ganking then why bother with stats on ships... No you idiot, I'm talking about if you get disconnected. If you check your logs it shows whether the log off was initiated from your end or server. If I'm not into pvp, maybe you should check the smash killboards. And if you hadn't noticed, dictor bubbles now DO initiate the aggression timer. Jeez, at least get your facts right.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 21:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Rofl 142 kills... I rest my case. God day to you sir, I`m off watching a movie. Yeah, which if i was into the ganking you suggested would be much higher from the 6 months I've been playing; but considering I like to work for them sits at a humble figure. As you pointed out yourself - its not about the numbers.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 21:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Oam Mkoll Originally by: Granmethedon III My argument is that if your cellphone is more important than your ship in eve, then you're not too fussed about losing that ship, right? The whole POINT in my opinion is that the enemy gang SHOULD be screwed if they log off behind enemy lines. If someone isn't ENGAGED at the moment of logoff, they should disappear. The current timer already allows for probing with perfect skills and that's as far as it should go. If I want to talk to real people in the real world, then yes, my cellphone IS more important. There's no reason at all why I should be punished in-game for being sane. What this whole stupid whine thread is about is the ability to kill HELPLESS players who are not in the game anymore. Of course a minority of players will log off as soon as there is a hostile in system. If you can't find your prey quickly enough, then cry more. You're no worse off than if the system turned out to be empty. One of the unique advantages of EVE is that it doesn't force people to play 24/7 to have any impact on the game. If hardcore measured by the hours you're stuck to your keyboard is what you're after then go play WoW, Lineage or Tibia. (where, I might add, the logoff timer isn't even close to what we have in EVE). This is a game of SPACE combat. Stop forcing people to operate from cities/inns or go back to other MMOs. 0.0 warfare is already too POS-centered, don't make things worse. I've never played another MMO so most of your references are wasted I'm afraid....
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 21:33:00 - [13] Originally by: BestPrices Originally by: Granmethedon III My argument is that if your cellphone is more important than your ship in eve, then you're not too fussed about losing that ship, right? Or maybe I just have sane priorities concerning the importance of a video game vs. the importance of my real world obligations? If you think EVE is always more important than your cellphone, you've clearly never had a girlfriend or a job. One of the draws of EVE for me is that I don't have to play 8 hours a day to have the skills to use decent ships (buying, however may be a longer term thing for me). I think you missed my point. If I die in game because I answer my phone to my girlfriend, I personally don't really care. It's a game.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 22:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Oam Mkoll Originally by: Granmethedon III I think you missed my point. If I die in game because I answer my phone to my girlfriend, I personally don't really care. It's a game. Oh, but I care. Only in game. Yet there is a world of difference between going AFK in the middle of an action or leaving your ship at a gate and logging off in a safespot, unengaged. The latter shouldn't incur severe in-game penalties. This game is great but not perfect. No reason to turn a mostly out-of-game activity into an in-game chore. If you cared that much then, you wouldn't take the call, and be the sad lowlife you were accusing me of being....
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 22:52:00 - [15] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Offlining all modules, 0 cap, 0 shield, 5-10 min timer when you log in - something like that is fine imo. But there needs to be a way to "escape" when you are blobbed up in a system, otherwise it is just too drastic for smallgangs/roaming, e.g carebear 0.0 napland heavens... Newsflash - most gangs don't have a prober.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.08 00:22:00 - [16] Edited by: Granmethedon III on 08/12/2007 00:24:44 Edited by: Granmethedon III on 08/12/2007 00:22:15 Originally by: Oam Mkoll Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Oam Mkoll Originally by: Granmethedon III I think you missed my point. If I die in game because I answer my phone to my girlfriend, I personally don't really care. It's a game. Oh, but I care. Only in game. Yet there is a world of difference between going AFK in the middle of an action or leaving your ship at a gate and logging off in a safespot, unengaged. The latter shouldn't incur severe in-game penalties. This game is great but not perfect. No reason to turn a mostly out-of-game activity into an in-game chore. If you cared that much then, you wouldn't take the call, and be the sad lowlife you were accusing me of being.... You fail to see the myriad possibilities between your "log off and die" and the instant disappearance from the game. No I see all the possibilities. You just fail to see a situation free from risk. I already expressed my personal preference earlier that any choice to log off would leave your ship at that point til you logged back in regardless. But then I also acknowledged that server constraints and whiners might object to this. All I really ask is that loggoffski not be a way to avoid the inevitable, whether it be a genuine reason to do so or otherwise.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.08 00:30:00 - [17] Originally by: An Anarchyyt I don't really see what is so hard about answering the phone, and getting yourself out of trouble. Multitasking just isn't quite as hard as you might think it is. And the OP here, is quickly becoming one of the worst posters. 0 for 3 from what I've seen. Only women can multi-task, or didn't your wife beat that into you?! I agree wholeheartedly.

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